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What does your mind have on it nowadays?

Not much. Golf, and that’s kind of it – that and ‘honey-do’ is my life. Honey-do means anything from the touch-up painting I did yesterday to landscape wiring. Well, let’s say I can paint if I can have a couple of beers at the same time. That’s about the only time I drink beer – when I have to paint. We had some water damage and got some paint matched at the hardware store. Someone came in and patched the water damage, and he ran out of paint so I took care of the touch-up.

Tell us about your retirement.

Retirement was difficult, especially the first few months. And then it suddenly got a lot better when I got out of Dodge. I was like the horse that pulled the milk wagon and just did that and knew its route. It was hard for me not to follow the same old route. When we bought a house in Arizona and came down here, it helped the transition. You have people who figure out where to buy a retirement home and they spend time there to make it an easier transition. We came out and kind of on a whim bought a house and decided to spend time in Scottsdale. Stan and Mary Seidler are neighbors. It’s a gated community and there’s a lot to do. Unfortunately, most of it involves eating. Right now I’m sitting on the patio with a cup of coffee. Our newly delivered saguaro cactus is 25 feet tall with six big arms. There’s something kind of restful about them. They’re solid and unmoving, and they have a presence.

We have eight grandchildren, which is nice. I have three sons and Sunnie (his wife, Sunnie Richer) has one. Her first grandchild will be born in August. They add to our lives. I’ve watched people just dry up and die immediately after retirement, and I’ve gotten beyond that. The harder you work, the harder it is to leave it all behind. There’s a lot of identity with work.

I had an identity with work when I worked in a grocery store, from the time I was 11 until I was out of college. I grew up in Clarion, Iowa, the 11th of 12 children. My oldest sister was born in 1915, and my father was 44 before he had any children, stopped having children when he was 69. I grew up with a lot of freedom . . . and no money.

I’m doing a little consulting, but there’s no real focus. I’m still not doing enough. We took a short course on Southwestern Indians at the Heard Museum. We have a monthly Iowa luncheon with about 40 guys from Des Moines.

What does it take to get things done in Des Moines?

It’s not really different there. You get things done in most places if you figure out the power structure and work through that. I’ll give you an example. When we wanted to restructure the company (AmerUs Life Holdings Inc.) in a way that had never been done and was not even legal at the time, we fleshed out the idea and went to the Principal (Financial Group Inc.) to make sure they weren’t going to fight us. We had trust in them because they do things well. Then we went to talk to Bob Ray, head of Blue Cross at the time. We knew he had knowledge of how government works, and he told us where to go for help.

So we went to the right person, Dave Lyons at the Iowa (Department of) Economic Development. We had created a one-year timeline, but he thought we could get it done in a few months. And we did. It’s a matter of getting the right people on your side. We got it through the Legislature and from then on, we were on track.

I’ve heard you described as brilliant and visionary. Why?

Well, most of my life I’ve been unhappy with the status quo. And that makes you want to find new ways to do everything. That’s what drives me, thinking of how things should be. Fortunately, I was in a position where I was willing and able to make change. And the company’s restructuring was one of the changes I created. It may not have been brilliant in the concept, but it was in the fact that we did it. We thought things through, but then we made things work. We didn’t just think; we did.

What was the best part of your career?

Probably restructuring of the company. Really, it was always about taking risk in an industry where risk-taking is not normal. The truth is that a lot of transactions we entered into were chances for me to lose my job. And eventually I did. When I retired. Some changes did not work out, but most did, and my track record was good enough. So I’d say the high points were the restructuring of my company, and the de-mutualization that created a lot of wealth for a lot of Iowans. Eventually, we ended up with about a billion dollars for Iowans.

A year before our restructuring, we merged with American Mutual [Life Insurance Co.] and that got us to a size that made it possible for us to go public. We went public to grow the company. People said at the time that we did it to make management rich. It didn’t hurt management, but we did not go public to get rich. It was a tactic that followed strategy. We knew we had to grow and we couldn’t unless we did something like that. We went from $3 billion to $27 billion in assets in a little over 10 years. We went from a market cap of $500 million to $2.6 billion when we sold to Aviva (plc).

One of the things we always tried to do was to level with people. When we merged with American Mutual, we announced we’d be cutting jobs but we explained that in the long run this would make us grow. And they’re up to about 1,700 jobs now, so it did that. We added to the Iowa economy that way. But first we had to cut. We went through a process with people at both companies where we set up a committee with representatives from both companies. We had some overlapping positions at the executive level, and we had to determine the better fit for the new jobs. I remember an employee who left saying, “I don’t like the end result, but I like how you handled it.” That made me feel good.

What would you do differently if you could change things?

I made a couple of mistakes. We went into the stock brokerage business and we had to pull the plug on that. We were a little aggressive on the health insurance business and lost $30 million on that.

How long were you at the company?

I was there for 47 years. I started at Central Life (Assurance Co.), which became American Mutual (Holding Co.), then it became AmerUs in 1997, when we were no longer a mutual company, then Aviva in 2006.

You were the first person to take an insurance company public (in a certain way, as you explained). What did it take to do that?

That was like taking an icy shower. We had actually run it like a public company, but you never are subjected to quarterly deadlines or having to make earnings every quarter. If you miss earnings by a penny, and that’s like $400,000 on $50 million, your stock goes in the tank. So you’re constantly thinking about the earnings stream in the company, too much I think. It takes a lot more discipline and there’s more pressure. We had a lot of pressure and it’s hard on people at all levels. Some people love it and thrive. There are racehorses and there are turtles, and you’ll kill them if you try to get them to change. People sought their own speed.

I’ve also heard you described as hard to work for. Why?

Well, I don’t know. Every time the company changed, there were people who couldn’t change with it. There’s always somebody who just can’t do things the new way.

Did you have a sidekick in all this?

Absolutely. DT Doan. He was always smarter than I was, and he was a prodigious worker and great thinker. He’s brilliant and credible. He’s still consulting for them. He’ll be 76 this October.

How much time will you spend in Arizona and in Des Moines?

I’m still an Iowa resident. We’ll spend more than half our time here. I’m working on the airport board and with the Greater Des Moines (Community) Foundation.

Talk about giving back to the community.

There is an obligation and it’s internal. A lot of people have more money than I do, but I have a lot more than many. Every cent I’ve accumulated, I got from my work in Des Moines. I have enough so I can live comfortably, and my kids will have too much (probably), and it feels appropriate to take care of some of the needs in Des Moines. And so, consequently, we’ll give more. We’ve endowed our United Way gift so it will go on forever.

Mike (Myron) and Jackie Blank, Dave Kruidenier, and Maddie Levitt are all gone, and the issue is who will take their place? Who’s going to make our next “Gray’s Lake project” happen? One of my goals is to get the Greater Des Moines Foundation big enough so they can move the needle. This foundation has to become more significant, has to have enough money to lead efforts on what must happen here. In a foundation meeting this was discussed when I went on the board, and we raised the bar. The uncommitted endowment is the key. We can’t stay where we are or we won’t make an impact. And we’re making progress.

You sound motivated and excited.

I’m not sure about the second part. I depend on Sunnie for excitement. She’s strong-willed, stubborn, beautiful. A great best friend and confidante. She’s a wonderful step-grandmother too, a real bundle of energy, a whirling dervish. She’s like a water bug, always skittering around.

Tell us about your golf game.

Well, it’s social. And I think there’s a love-hate thing. As Bill Knapp says, it takes up four hours. And when you were working, you couldn’t take that kind of time. So I played tennis instead.

Golf is never the same. You’re never in the same place; you never hit the same shot twice. You’re always making some kind of a great shot or big mistake. It’s full of surprises. Out here, you’re looking at the mountains; the desert’s right there. Surroundings are beautiful. You’ve got at least three people you’ll spend extended time with, so you’re going to get to know them. You reveal your own personality and they reveal theirs.

What about making new friends. How’d you do that?

Well, I’ll tell you. I grew up in a small town of 3,200 and spent my life in a mid-sized city that’s sort of small-townish. I returned to my roots in a golf community with about 300-400 members. Now, I’m back in a small town. It’s a little more homogeneous than Des Moines. Most everyone here has succeeded at something, and we have people from all over the world. Canadians. South Africans. People from both coasts and Midwesterners. But they’re all in the same boat – they’ve relocated. It happens that this is a fabulous group. I haven’t met anyone I don’t like. Our life is about the clubhouse, exercise, yoga classes. It’s fairly easy to meet people.

Roger, you’re doing yoga?

No. (Laughter.) Sunnie’s taking yoga classes.

What made you such an original?

I really don’t know that. Some peculiar combination of genetics and pretty good mental abilities, a good work ethic, and lots of luck. But you know, the reality is that I probably couldn’t get a board today to go along with the changes I made years ago. That plus political correctness makes it harder to be original today.

You’re known to be outrageous.

I’m getting too old to be outrageous. Smartass is the term.